Neuromancer vs. The Matrix

[MegaDrive 20XX]

No one is going to argue that *The Matrix* movies are to die for, both in it's complex story and visual effects... BUT, I'm wondering what the heck happend to the film version of William Gibson's novel *NEUROMANCER*. A lot of ppl today haven't even read that book or the follow ups to the "Sprawl Trilogy" of Neuromancer, Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive, and think that stuff like Matrix is the pinncale of Cyberpunk and/or subversive Sci-Fi. I for one, after having read my copy of the scrpit for the film version of that ground breaking C.P. novel of 1985 want to see the descriptions of that script that married the novel nicely put on the big screen!

For those who don't know, NEUROMANCER was Blade Runner meets The Matrix before most of what we take for granted was even up and running. Movies like "Strange Days" took Gibson's Simstim Deck and called it a *Wire* but ppl forget that this dude wrote all of this on paper without anything in which to base it on, much less give the reader a clear understanding of what to compare it to. The script that has floated around the net for sometime is almost as awesome as the book itself. My question is for those who know of Gibson's works (most saw Johnny Mnemonic with Keanu Reeves I'm sure) how pumped are you about the movie coming out, and how do you think ppl already smitten with ~The Matrix~ stuff would even give it a try?

The film was supposed to be out by 1999/2000 and directed by the British director Chris Cunningham. He has been acknowledged for directing several music videos for Aphex Twin ('Come to Daddy', 'Windowlicker'), Madonna ('Frozen') and Portishead ('Only You') and is also known for his f/x work in movies like 'Alien part III... but the film is nowhere to be found!
How could a movie based on an original ground breaking 3 Sci-Fi award winning awards simply dissapear? Just wondering who in the Higher Voltage community is into Cyberpunk/Sci-Fi. I personally think Neuromancer could give MATRIX a serious run for it's money even if most today have never read the books, or were born when the novels came out.

Anyone have any info?

[hiryuu1115]

I've always liked Neuromancer as a cyberpunk novel but was unable to get into the other two of the series because I kept having to return the damn things to my friend :p

Currently, I'm reading Gibson's new book, Idorru. Not too bad so far but I'll have to read it again since reading a book in thirty minute intervals between classes isn't the greatest way to retain a story :/

Back on topic - a Neuromancer movie would be damn cool. You get your martial arts and gunplay action, you get some trippy cyberspace action with ice breaking and such, and a good plot to tie things together.

Only news I've got on the movie is that movie rights got sold back and forth and Cunningham is working with Gibson to refine the script.

More good potential wasted while we get steaming piles of crap at the movie theater like say ... every single movie ever made starring a musician :/

[MegaDrive 20XX]

Ah... nice to see a fellow C.P. fan as well as Gibson fan, :supergrin but you are aware that *All Tomorrow's Parties* is the latest book right? Idoru came out in late '96 and is a damn cool concept about a real person marrying a virtual idol singer, then Tomorrow's Parties (1999) picks up where Idoru leaves off bringing back the character's from 1994's *Virtual Light*, but if "Parties" is his final book it's kind of a let down... his first 3 books are the best along with that anthology "Burning Chrome". Well thanks for the info on the Neuromancer movie, I was wondering what became of it, just glad to see it's still in the running if even in the shadows.

...now if I could just figure out why even after I log out of Higher Voltage, I'm still logged in anyhow in the boardwalk?

[blockhead]

Actually, Gibson's latest book is "Pattern Recognition" which streets on February 3rd. :tongue

I have the logging out problem, too... no matter how many times I try, I can't log out of the forums. Dunno why.

[RalphWiggum]

If you like the Matrix... check out this bad ass flick!!

click here for coolness!! (http://www.apple.com/trailers/miramax/equilibrium.html)

[MegaDrive 20XX]

Originally posted by Underkill
Actually, Gibson's latest book is "Pattern Recognition" which streets on February 3rd. :tongue


Man you just made my whole week with this tidbit of information as since taking down my Gibson fansite back in '99 I haven't really kept up with his stuff save for that Abel Ferarra film version of *New Rose Hotel*. I hope it's a throwback to his sprawl stories so we can finally see what happend to Sally Shears/Molly Millions walking into Dog Soltitude and Angela Mitchell and the whole alter universe thing that I sometimes am suspect to think AKIRA borrowed from... BUT, *Pattern Recognition* is prolly part 4 in his Post-Sprawl stuff rather than part 4 of the good ole' days. Thanks for the info though.

***Yeah Ralph I saw that flick, DAMN AWESOME! Now if only Neuromancer would get out of it's holding pattern and show the world what the king of C.P. came up with before the Watchoski Brothers made the world smitten. All around it's all good stuff.

[blockhead]

Actually, "PR" isn't connected to the Sprawl novels at all... it seems it was inspired by the events of Sept 11th, I think.

I'll see if I can't track down the plot synopsis.

[blockhead]

BAM

Cayce Pollard is an expensive, spookily intuitive market-research consultant. In London on a job, she is offered a secret assignment: to investigate some intriguing snippets of video that have been appearing on the Internet. An entire subculture of people is obsessed with these bits of footage, and anybody who can create that kind of brand loyalty would be a gold mine for Cayce's client. But when her borrowed apartment is burgled and her computer hacked, she realizes there's more to this project than she had expected.

Still, Cayce is her father's daughter, and the danger makes her stubborn. Win Pollard, ex-security expert, probably ex-CIA, took a taxi in the direction of the World Trade Center on September 11 one year ago, and is presumed dead. Win taught Cayce a bit about the way agents work. She is still numb at his loss, and, as much for him as for any other reason, she refuses to give up this newly weird job, which will take her to Tokyo and on to Russia. With help and betrayal from equally unlikely quarters, Cayce will follow the trail of the mysterious film to its source, and in the process will learn something about her father's life and death.

[rectal_area]

Originally posted by RalphWiggum
If you like the Matrix... check out this bad ass flick!!

click here for coolness!! (http://www.apple.com/trailers/miramax/equilibrium.html)

there's an equilibrium thread around here somewhere...

[RalphWiggum]

Originally posted by rectal_area
there's an equilibrium thread around here somewhere...

i didnt see one anywhere... anyway, too bad they never gave this film a chance... in the theater for a week, no commercials on tv, no posters, nothing!

[rectal_area]

they released a trailer a week after the movie opened...

this reminded me to go download it off kaaza

[MegaDrive 20XX]

Originally posted by Underkill
Actually, "PR" isn't connected to the Sprawl novels at all... it seems it was inspired by the events of Sept 11th, I think.

I'll see if I can't track down the plot synopsis.

Man you're just a treasure trope of gift giving knowledge tonight and I for one salute you! From the synopses above you pasted it sounds a bit like the whole NODES thing that Yamazaki is obessed with in Idoru and All Tomorrow's Parties where fragments of information about anything and everything literally paint a pattern that foresees future events... most recently used in the movie Minority Report I might add, without all the mystiscm of Steve Perry's Matador Saga stuff where the Siblings of the Shroud can forsee the future mixing tech with psychic energies. I'm most certainly going to buy *Pattern Recognition*... heck it's like my sig says below... ~The Pattern is the teacher~

Good stuff man! You by any chance into the SF of Steve Perry?

*Matador Saga*
---The Man Who Never Missed
---Matadora
---Machiavelli Interface
---The Albino Knife
---The 97th Step (Prequel to Man Who Never Missed)
---Black Steel
---Brother Death

~Omega Cage~ *25 yrs before 97th Step

It's not C.P. in the sense of hackers and super agents but it's freggin' expansive and soul tearing to read.

[blockhead]

Nope... never read Perry. I don't read much of anything nowadays, except for works by my favorite authors. William Gibson and Neil Gaiman, in particular.

Oh, and Kurt Vonnegut. The man is awesome.

[MegaDrive 20XX]

Well if you ever get bored do an ABE Book search on the Matador books by Steve Perry, I assure you you won't be dissapointed. His books are out of print though :( and thus they must be looked for. When I talked with him breifly back in late '99 via email he mentioned doing a prequel to all the books but I have seen nothing on it... and Kurt is quite an interesting author. My GF just gave me a book called *Wampeters, Foma & Granfalloons* and I'm enjoying it so far. :supergrin

As a Gibson fan however, which is your favorite of his novels? I'm still in the favor of Neuromancer followed by the short story that takes place before it of ~Burning Chrome~, and still miffed that I missed a live play of it in Chicago sometime ago.

[blockhead]

Definitely Neuromancer... and then the one with Molly and that girl, I forget the name. It's been a while since I've read his novels.

All Tomorrow's Parties was good, too.

[blockhead]

Regarding Vonnegut, have you ever read Slaughterhouse Five? The way he satirizes human behavior is really quite amazing, despite being very simple. It really makes you stop and wonder what the hell everyone thinks they're doing.

He describes guns as "device[s] that people use to punch holes in other people." :supergrin

[MegaDrive 20XX]

I've never read "Slaughter House Five" but I own the wacky movie and love it to death! Now that I know it's based on one of his writings I'll have to read it. His handling of spatial time as one of Past,Present,Future all happening NOW is one I took to since it's how I live my life. Never really here nor there, I just am. If you like that kind of symbolism try the Spahgetti Western KEOMA with Franco Nero... it's about as strange as *Slaughter House Five* that's a retelling of the Cain & Abel story mixed with "Sprial Time" one that flows from the center and we all end up at the same points periodically where he tries to find ultimate redemption through killing cause it's the cards dealt to him. All very interesting.

I don't have my copy of Mona Lisa Overdrive with me right now, but I believe the girl's name was "Kumiko" or something like that and Molly Millions (the millions part of her name is mentioned only once in the Johnny Mnemonic short story) is Sally Shears right up until the end, again if memory hasn't failed me on that. BTW, were you as dissapointed as I was to learn that Dina Meyer's role of Molly the Razor girl was dumbed down to Jane for the movie version of Mnemonic? I mean how hard would it have been to give Dina the razor scaplel blades from under her finger nails in the movie you know.

[blockhead]

I haven't seen any movies or anything based off of Gibson's works... didn't know of the Johnny Mnemonic connection, either. I'm not really hardcore into this stuff, I just read a lot through my school years. I don't think I've even ever read any SF stuff aside from Gibson.
Sorry I'm so boring. :tongue

[MegaDrive 20XX]

No prob man... I got really into the stuff in highschool (circa 1993) but have been out of the loop lately until you mentioned *PR* If you want to see the movies they are...

Johnny Mnemonic (1995)
---Keanu Reeves, Dina Meyer, Dolph Lundgren,
Udo Keir, ICE-T, 'Beat' Takeshi Kitano.

New Rose Hotel (1998)
---Willem Dafoe, Christopher Walken, Asia Argento,
& Annabella Sciorra. *This one's a talker, but stays
closer to the C.P. vibe than J.M.

[hiryuu1115]

Well shit, I'm out of touch :p

Thanks for the recommendations on what to spend my next paycheck on. My mind thanks you while my wallet and bank account cry for mercy :P

[Minx]

Neuromancer is a gay cock. At least when James Cameron wrote Strange Days he put in a decent story free of wanky slang jargon.

[SiegfriedFM]

Neil Stephenson's Snow Crash is excellent, give it a try!

I've read some Gibsons many years ago, but I forget which. I'm pretty sure that I read Neuromancer.

[MegaDrive 20XX]

Originally posted by manminx
Neuromancer is a gay cock. At least when James Cameron wrote Strange Days he put in a decent story free of wanky slang jargon.
I respect your opinion, but when Gibson came up with the whole Sprawl thing with his first short story *Johnny Mnemonic* followed later on by New Rose Hotel, Burning Chrome and finally the Neuromancer (originally titled "Jacked In") novel you have to understand he was shooting for something surreal with elements of realism, thus where "Strange Days" is more straight foward in HAD to be because it was set in a more contemporary time... whereas Neuromancer, Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive ALL were a ~Near Future~ (or even alternate version of the 80's) that was unlike anything ever written/imagined/read, and thus is the reason he won the Hugo, Nebula and Phillip K. Dick awards with that original novel and all it's hodge podge of jargon and oddities. I admit the first time I read Neuromancer I was like WTF? ...but after going through it two more times I saw the brillance of it, and of course when Johnny Mnemonic was turned into a movie and we actually got to see the Cyberspace Matrix as he had described it on paper, things clicked even more. People tend to forget that while his framework borrowed from Blade Runner in some elements... practically everything from AKIRA, to Bubblegum Crisis, GITS to Strange Days to no doubt THE MATRIX has borrowed off of Gibson since, so for me seeing what is described in the screenplay of the book turned into a moive would definately be the moment of truth.

***And yes Sigfried I HAVE READ ~Snow Crash~ and is a great book in it's own respects, though I found it harder to get into than Gibson's stuff. "Islands In The Net" by Bruce Sterling is equally cool.

[blockhead]

Just so you know, you don't have to bother responding to anything Manmix posts. He just likes baiting people. Anything you like he will slander, and then go on to declare something truly awful far superior.

We keep him around for the entertainment value.

[boysplitter]

William Gibson's new Novel comes out tomorrow.

Ulognep and I are going to hear him speak at the UW. Gotta go snag a copy of Pattern Recognition for him to sign.

[EvilNeil]

Originally posted by Underkill
Just so you know, you don't have to bother responding to anything Manmix posts. He just likes baiting people. Anything you like he will slander, and then go on to declare something truly awful far superior.
I don't know, I think there's often a lot of truth in what he says. It's just a truth a lot of people don't like. His BLADE sum-up still cracks me up. :D

[Minx]

Streat Phytar: Real Battal On Film roxxxordian!!!!!!






See?

[Ulognep]

Originally posted by boysplitter
Ulognep and I are going to hear him speak at the UW. Gotta go snag a copy of Pattern Recognition for him to sign.

damn bitch you beat me to the punch. In other news, I find it amusing that the two of us would bother to share this information with a community that probably doesn't give two shits about either of us.

Fuck it dude, lets go play 3S. [/lebowski]

[boysplitter]

Originally posted by Ulognep
. . . a community that probably doesn't give two shits about either of us.


That's like, your opinion man. </Lebowski>